Public Order, Private vs. Public, and New Building Effects

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Public Order, Private vs. Public, and New Building Effects

Post  gamegeek2 on Sun Dec 05, 2010 10:14 pm

First of all, I want to make it harder for empires to expand, by making public order lower. I'd like for base public order to be 70%, the level at which a settlement won't rebel, but won't stay around for much longer. There's a decent number of ways to keep the people happy, so I think this is a fair new challenge.

To do so, we could just put a building in every province that gives -30% happiness; I think this is a reasonable idea.

Second, the whole "private vs public" thing is the idea that public institutions require tax-funded upkeep and/or higher cost, but have greater long term economic benefits for the state (the player), greater loyalty/less corruption, etc.


Last edited by gamegeek2 on Wed Apr 13, 2011 7:54 pm; edited 3 times in total
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Re: Public Order, Private vs. Public, and New Building Effects

Post  gamegeek2 on Sun Dec 05, 2010 10:18 pm

A prime example of this is the sewer and healer/asklepion buildings. They are identical in EB, but I think there's a way we could add more 'flavor' to the game.

SEWER BUILDING LINE

Basic Public Sanitation
Cost: 2 turns, 800 mnai
+5% Health

Sewers
Cost: 4 turns, 1600 mnai
+10% Health
-1% Tax income

Public Baths
Cost: 6 turns, 2400 mnai
+15% Health
+5% Happiness
-2% Tax Income

Cisterns/Aqueducts
Cost: 8 turns, 3200 mnai
+20% Health
+10% Happiness
-3% Tax Income

HEALER BUILDING LINE

Healer/Asklepion
Cost: 0 turns, 1600 mnai
+5% Health

Hospital
Cost: 0 turns, 3200 mnai
+10% Health


Last edited by gamegeek2 on Wed Apr 13, 2011 7:35 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Re: Public Order, Private vs. Public, and New Building Effects

Post  Ryoga84 on Sun Sep 13, 2015 9:18 am

gamegeek2 wrote:First of all, I want to make it harder for empires to expand, by making public order lower. I'd like for base public order to be 70%, the level at which a settlement won't rebel, but won't stay around for much longer. There's a decent number of ways to keep the people happy, so I think this is a fair new challenge.

To do so, we could just put a building in every province that gives -30% happiness; I think this is a reasonable idea.

I didi a similar thing in a submod of mine ( ASTGW ), in detail
4. Shifting the balance: The core problem was promoting the greek factions, smallest and more balkanized than their northern kin without giving them too much power. As result, the northern factions get an increasingly negative law bonus for managing cities outside their native area (Epiros AoR for Epiros, Macedonia AoR for Macedonia and Thessaly AoR for Thessalia), the bigger the city the bigger the malus.

I did this giving a increasingly negative law bonus as a building effect on the governor building, if that region had not a certain AoR tag.
as such this was the code
Code:
building core_building
{
    levels governors_house governors_villa governors_palace proconsuls_palace imperial_palace
    {
        governors_house requires factions { barbarian, eastern, greek, }
        [cut]
        governors_villa requires factions { barbarian, eastern, greek, }
        [cut]
        governors_palace requires factions { barbarian, eastern, greek, }
        {
            capability
            {
                agent diplomat  0  requires factions { barbarian, }
                agent diplomat  0  requires factions { eastern, }
                agent diplomat  1  requires factions { greek, }
 law_bonus bonus -1 requires factions { gauls, } and not hidden_resource epiros_aor
 law_bonus bonus -1 requires factions { macedon, } and not hidden_resource macedonia_aor
 law_bonus bonus -1 requires factions { armenia, } and not hidden_resource thessaly_aor
        [cut]
        }
        proconsuls_palace requires factions { eastern, greek, }
        {
            capability
            {
                agent diplomat  0  requires factions { barbarian, }
                agent diplomat  0  requires factions { eastern, }
                agent diplomat  2  requires factions { greek, }
 law_bonus bonus -2 requires factions { gauls, } and not hidden_resource epiros_aor
 law_bonus bonus -2 requires factions { macedon, } and not hidden_resource macedonia_aor
 law_bonus bonus -2 requires factions { armenia, } and not hidden_resource thessaly_aor
        [cut]
        imperial_palace requires factions { eastern, greek, }
        {
            capability
            {
                agent diplomat  0  requires factions { barbarian, }
                agent diplomat  0  requires factions { eastern, }
                agent diplomat  3  requires factions { greek, }
                upgrade_bodyguard 1
 law_bonus bonus -3 requires factions { gauls, } and not hidden_resource epiros_aor
 law_bonus bonus -3 requires factions { macedon, } and not hidden_resource macedonia_aor
 law_bonus bonus -3 requires factions { armenia, } and not hidden_resource thessaly_aor
        [cut]        }
    }
    plugins
    {
    }
}

as can be easily noted (gauls is Epiros, macedon is Makedonia and armenia is Thessalia), cities outside the faction own "natural" area are less manageable, and they become harder to manage as they become bigger.
the downside in this system, is that we need to devote some tag in the descr_regions.txt for each "culture"
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Re: Public Order, Private vs. Public, and New Building Effects

Post  gamegeek2 on Sun Sep 13, 2015 4:00 pm

The way I thought about doing it would be with BI's religion mechanic, with that being used as culture instead. Factional government buildings would convert a region to the factional religion, but only very slowly (assuming there's a way to actually make this go slowly). I'll dig up the post where I outlined this.
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Re: Public Order, Private vs. Public, and New Building Effects

Post  Ryoga84 on Sun Sep 13, 2015 4:47 pm

If we can make it go smothly, I'm in. But there are many ways in which a "religious system" can go wrong.
For example, I played a mod featuring Ireland (I don't remember the name, sorry) and, while excellent from every point ov view, had a flaw in the religion system. Each time you saved the game, quit game, then restart the game and reload your save, the religion status of every area reset to the starting situation. None to be said, it was somewhat annoying, especially after having painfully and slowly converted half of the isle to paganism.
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Re: Public Order, Private vs. Public, and New Building Effects

Post  gamegeek2 on Sun Sep 13, 2015 4:50 pm

OK - we probably shouldn't try to implement it as one of the first things, then. The culture penalty to order is already pretty large, I think, and we don't immediately need something to compound it unless we are sure we can make it work.
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Re: Public Order, Private vs. Public, and New Building Effects

Post  Ryoga84 on Sun Sep 13, 2015 5:19 pm

I'm not against it, I'm saying it clearly, but is the kind of problem that can destroy an otherwise good game.
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Re: Public Order, Private vs. Public, and New Building Effects

Post  gamegeek2 on Sun Sep 13, 2015 6:17 pm

Yeah. I think we should maybe try to add that later, but for now focus on other aspects of the game.
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